[oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

Brian, first read my last post.

Yes I do understand your position, I own about 23 different oopics
most installed in robots or projects of some kind. My classroom kids
all have them in robots. Yea we are in the same boat.

I know I cannot make everyone happy here and I know you are pissed. I
did not promise anything previous of May and yes I know Scott did.

I will try and talk him into looking into the event thing AS TIME
ALLOWS. I PROMISE TO DO THIS. I cannot make him do it but I can try
and push some buttons. Keep in mind the change may simply be users
manual and not code.

That is my first SI promise lol and I will keep it.

Ted

--- In oopic@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6rqn@...> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure how this affects your school project. Your ooPic
does
> > what you bought it to to correct?
>
> I will answer for myself on this: NO IT DOES NOT!
>
> > The compiler is still and will always be available.
>
> BUT IT DOES NOT WORK RIGHT! WE WERE PROMISED A FIX. WE WERE GIVEN
A
> DATE. I BOUGHT NEW PRODUCT BASED ON SUPPORT AND IMPROVEMENT. I
HAVE
> BEEN DROPPED ON MY FACE!
>
> > This group is still here and full of users who love to
> > help people out. If you have a real tricky question I can pull
Scotts
> > head out of the code bag long enough to get him to answer a
> > question. I
> > am around and if I have the same hardware on my bench I can wire
up
> > and
> > test your code out adn see if I can find a fix as well.
>
> EVENTS DON'T WORK IN V6! I have a number OF OOPIC-C's. They don't
work
> right.
>
> > Unsupported does not mean gone it just means no more dev work.
>
> I don't care if you do more dev work. I just want the low-level
basic
> functionality that were were told was in the product to work as
> documented. That is pretty basic.
>
> > Read my last post and try to understand our position please.
>
> Of course I understand your position. The problem is, you are
doing
> nothing to understand ours. And *WE* are the customers. We are the
> people who buy your products! Hello!?!?
>
> >
> >
> > Here is something UNTESTED for VISTA users. Try turning the UAC
OFF.
> > It
> > seems to make the BioLab work just fine on Vista and it has the
same
> > basic framework as the old compiler.
>
> Vista is not a big issue (at least not to me).I don't know anyone
who
> knowingly runs Vista. Everyone I know has fallen back to XP. Hey,
make
> it work like the doc says it does on XP.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori
> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com 9330 Sierra College Blvd.
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) Roseville, CA 95661, USA
> http://www.gbmontessori.com
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
things . . .
> — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>

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RE: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

You won't see that one fixed. Scott used Windows API calls for
string handling functionality instead of just writing his own
functions or borrowing code from available sources. The result is
assumptions (like alpha sort order) that don't hold true under
non-English locales. It's not going to get rewritten.

At 08:43 PM 8/1/2008, ray xu wrote:
>Also, there's one more thing your missing about the compiler problems; its
>that when you have another language besides English installed on the PC, the
>compiler gets very confused and doesn't operate properly.

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Re: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

Well give us a quick lesson on how they are supposed to work.

**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

I would have to agree with you, it is bus. 101. So is making enough
money to continue working on and developing product. Even though the
ooPic is cool, it is no longer an 8 bit world. The world changes and
we have to change with it. Look around, we are already at least a
year behind the switch to 16 and 32 bit processors.

A little side note about events. A lot of the problems with events
could have been solved not with coding but with a change in the users
manual to clarify how they were designed to work and how NOT to use
them.

Ted

--- In oopic@yahoogroups.com, dldlhfd@... wrote:
>
> I am not one bit surprised that you only sold two in July. The
people on
> this board have been telling you since December of last year.
(look at the
> events again thread) that events didn't work. If I look at this
board for
> information and find out that not only doesn't he product work but
you are not fixing
> it I am sure as heck not going to buy one. That's business 101.
>
>
>
> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
budget?
> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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RE: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

Ok thanks, I thought Savage is going to pull ALL support on the OOPic legacy
stuff, including the compiler. If the compiler doesn't get pulled, I'm
fine.unless I would need an OOPic C.

Just wondering, when will that "Pro series" on an R be out, or am I mistaken
with the ooBug (I didn't see any general purpose IO on it)?

___________________
Ray Xu
rayxu@tx.rr.com
DPRG <http://www.dprg.org> member
OOPic <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> group member
Seattle <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/> Robotics
group member
My Blog <http://rayxublogs.blogspot.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: oopic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oopic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
theo570
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:01 PM
To: oopic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

OK that one is my bad. The ooPic Pro series will probably end up on
an R board. I should not have left that out. The S board may not have
enough physical real estate.

New IC, new IC for USB, USB conn., 2 power supps etc.

Sorry for not keeping that clear.

Ted

--- In oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com, "ray xu"
<rayxu@...> wrote:
>
> And plus, maybe it would be a good idea to make the oobug into the
oopic C,
> S, or R form (Just replace the chipset). It would be a lot more
flexible,
> especially to me, and it would keep the R, S, and C still on-the-
shelf.
>
>
>
> ___________________
> Ray Xu
> rayxu@...
> DPRG <http://www.dprg. <http://www.dprg.org> org> member
> OOPic <http://tech. <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/>
groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> group member
> Seattle <http://tech.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
Robotics
> group member
> My Blog <http://rayxublogs. <http://rayxublogs.blogspot.com/>
blogspot.com/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
Behalf Of ray
> xu
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:44 PM
> To: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: RE: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and
etc..
> UPDATE
>
>
>
> Ok now that you have cleared up things before I left, that settles
things
> for me; I may still go with the oopic, but still unsure. The least
> you/Savage can do is spare the compiler and the tech stuff.
>
> Also, there's one more thing your missing about the compiler
problems; its
> that when you have another language besides English installed on
the PC, the
> compiler gets very confused and doesn't operate properly.
>
> ___________________
> Ray Xu
> rayxu@... <mailto:rayxu%40tx.rr.com> com
> DPRG <http://www.dprg. <http://www.dprg. <http://www.dprg.org> org> org>
member
> OOPic <http://tech. <http://tech.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/>
> groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> group member
> Seattle <http://tech.
<http://tech. <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
> groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/> Robotics
> group member
> My Blog <http://rayxublogs. <http://rayxublogs.
<http://rayxublogs.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/>
blogspot.com/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
> [mailto:oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
Behalf
> Of
> theo570
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:38 PM
> To: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and
etc.. UPDATE
>
> Ok so that didn't go over too well... Please take the time and READ!
>
> I am sorry guys, don't blame the messenger. I am not the major
share
> holder in the program here, rather, the little guy that gets the
> dirty work.
>
> The decision was decreed to me and I passed it along.
>
> SO now we wont gloss over any facts... 2 YES 2 whole ooPics sold in
> July. Yup we can sure make a business out of that. Thats what? 170
> bucks worth of sales, care to run a business on that? When it was
300
> units a month no problem or even 100 but 2? Don't forget that the
> whopping 170 is before we pay to have the boards made and pay for a
> website and pay for packaging etc... We also can't buy the boards
one
> at a time, they come in hundreds.
>
> I truely am sorry that two different days had two different
versions,
> I did pass on the decisions play by play, right or wrong.
>
> It does suck, for me as much as you. Not only is every robot I own
> ooPic powered, some going back two A1 boards, I teach robotics as
> well and guess what... every student I have is using one version or
> another of the ooPic. I slipped once and used an avr, but I jumped
> back.
>
> I can't un make you pissed off and I can't make it all better. Of
> course we do not want you to leave, that would be silly. I know
that
> SI has traditionally been weak on after the sale support and we are
> trying to fix that. Anyone feel free to chime in and offer to do
tech
> support for free? Dennis did not want to...
>
> I will talk to Scott further about the compiler and see if he can't
> patch up the oEvent code before it is fully retired. The only two
> real complaints that I could find by reading back, and recent
posts,
> come down to bad oEvents and Vista issues correct?
>
> Dennis was not let go like some are trying to imply. Before my time
> there was another much larger partner who decided to quit paying
him
> then that partner decided to move along, thats when I came along.
> Things were bad and we had one new product that was starting to
sell.
>
> Please try and understand the business side of the decision, no
money
> coming in means it is very hard to dedicate unpaid time to that
> product. As much as we would like to keep on going with the old we
> personnaly cannot, we all have bills to pay and the new might pay
> them. Every decision made was strictly financial.
>
> I will move the compiler files to somewhere else. That site being
> down was unitentional, poorly timed and certianly not done on
> purpose. I will let you know where they end up. I am not even sure
> why it went down just yet.
>
> If you do decide to move along we are sorry to see you go and THANK
> YOU for all the years of support. If you read the above, you now
> understand why the decisions were made and we hope that with a
little
> patience you will stick it out for the ooPic Pro series.
>
> If you did decide to hang in there then THANK YOU to that crowd.
>
> If you have already swam the river all we can do is try to make a
> better product with better support and try to get you to swim back.
>
> Really, if you feel qualified and want to hang the moniker of SI
Tech
> Support on your signature send me an email. It is an unpaid
position
> for now but that will change in the future we hope. bigbug@oobug.
> <mailto:bigbug%40oobug.com> com.
>
> Jessica, It seems you may have inadvertantly left some of the facts
> out of your post and because we have worked together for so long I
> will not correct your mistakes in here. You may however contact me
> for a complete and correct list. Your financial woes in business
and
> with SI/Pentar were before my time.
>
> Ted
> Savage Innovations
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

> I am not sure how this affects your school project. Your ooPic does
> what you bought it to to correct?

I will answer for myself on this: NO IT DOES NOT!

> The compiler is still and will always be available.

BUT IT DOES NOT WORK RIGHT! WE WERE PROMISED A FIX. WE WERE GIVEN A
DATE. I BOUGHT NEW PRODUCT BASED ON SUPPORT AND IMPROVEMENT. I HAVE
BEEN DROPPED ON MY FACE!

> This group is still here and full of users who love to
> help people out. If you have a real tricky question I can pull Scotts
> head out of the code bag long enough to get him to answer a
> question. I
> am around and if I have the same hardware on my bench I can wire up
> and
> test your code out adn see if I can find a fix as well.

EVENTS DON'T WORK IN V6! I have a number OF OOPIC-C's. They don't work
right.

> Unsupported does not mean gone it just means no more dev work.

I don't care if you do more dev work. I just want the low-level basic
functionality that were were told was in the product to work as
documented. That is pretty basic.

> Read my last post and try to understand our position please.

Of course I understand your position. The problem is, you are doing
nothing to understand ours. And *WE* are the customers. We are the
people who buy your products! Hello!?!?

>
>
> Here is something UNTESTED for VISTA users. Try turning the UAC OFF.
> It
> seems to make the BioLab work just fine on Vista and it has the same
> basic framework as the old compiler.

Vista is not a big issue (at least not to me).I don't know anyone who
knowingly runs Vista. Everyone I know has fallen back to XP. Hey, make
it work like the doc says it does on XP.

--

Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori
brian AT gbmontessori DOT com 9330 Sierra College Blvd.
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) Roseville, CA 95661, USA
http://www.gbmontessori.com

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

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[oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and etc.. UPDATE

OK that one is my bad. The ooPic Pro series will probably end up on
an R board. I should not have left that out. The S board may not have
enough physical real estate.

New IC, new IC for USB, USB conn., 2 power supps etc.

Sorry for not keeping that clear.

Ted

--- In oopic@yahoogroups.com, "ray xu" <rayxu@...> wrote:
>
> And plus, maybe it would be a good idea to make the oobug into the
oopic C,
> S, or R form (Just replace the chipset). It would be a lot more
flexible,
> especially to me, and it would keep the R, S, and C still on-the-
shelf.
>
>
>
> ___________________
> Ray Xu
> rayxu@...
> DPRG <http://www.dprg.org> member
> OOPic <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> group member
> Seattle <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
Robotics
> group member
> My Blog <http://rayxublogs.blogspot.com/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oopic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oopic@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of ray
> xu
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:44 PM
> To: oopic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and
etc..
> UPDATE
>
>
>
> Ok now that you have cleared up things before I left, that settles
things
> for me; I may still go with the oopic, but still unsure. The least
> you/Savage can do is spare the compiler and the tech stuff.
>
> Also, there's one more thing your missing about the compiler
problems; its
> that when you have another language besides English installed on
the PC, the
> compiler gets very confused and doesn't operate properly.
>
> ___________________
> Ray Xu
> rayxu@... <mailto:rayxu%40tx.rr.com> com
> DPRG <http://www.dprg. <http://www.dprg.org> org> member
> OOPic <http://tech. <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/>
> groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic/> group member
> Seattle <http://tech.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/>
> groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/> Robotics
> group member
> My Blog <http://rayxublogs. <http://rayxublogs.blogspot.com/>
blogspot.com/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
> [mailto:oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
Behalf
> Of
> theo570
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:38 PM
> To: oopic@yahoogroups. <mailto:oopic%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: [oopic] Re: Savage Innovations / Compiler / ooBug and
etc.. UPDATE
>
> Ok so that didn't go over too well... Please take the time and READ!
>
> I am sorry guys, don't blame the messenger. I am not the major
share
> holder in the program here, rather, the little guy that gets the
> dirty work.
>
> The decision was decreed to me and I passed it along.
>
> SO now we wont gloss over any facts... 2 YES 2 whole ooPics sold in
> July. Yup we can sure make a business out of that. Thats what? 170
> bucks worth of sales, care to run a business on that? When it was
300
> units a month no problem or even 100 but 2? Don't forget that the
> whopping 170 is before we pay to have the boards made and pay for a
> website and pay for packaging etc... We also can't buy the boards
one
> at a time, they come in hundreds.
>
> I truely am sorry that two different days had two different
versions,
> I did pass on the decisions play by play, right or wrong.
>
> It does suck, for me as much as you. Not only is every robot I own
> ooPic powered, some going back two A1 boards, I teach robotics as
> well and guess what... every student I have is using one version or
> another of the ooPic. I slipped once and used an avr, but I jumped
> back.
>
> I can't un make you pissed off and I can't make it all better. Of
> course we do not want you to leave, that would be silly. I know
that
> SI has traditionally been weak on after the sale support and we are
> trying to fix that. Anyone feel free to chime in and offer to do
tech
> support for free? Dennis did not want to...
>
> I will talk to Scott further about the compiler and see if he can't
> patch up the oEvent code before it is fully retired. The only two
> real complaints that I could find by reading back, and recent
posts,
> come down to bad oEvents and Vista issues correct?
>
> Dennis was not let go like some are trying to imply. Before my time
> there was another much larger partner who decided to quit paying
him
> then that partner decided to move along, thats when I came along.
> Things were bad and we had one new product that was starting to
sell.
>
> Please try and understand the business side of the decision, no
money
> coming in means it is very hard to dedicate unpaid time to that
> product. As much as we would like to keep on going with the old we
> personnaly cannot, we all have bills to pay and the new might pay
> them. Every decision made was strictly financial.
>
> I will move the compiler files to somewhere else. That site being
> down was unitentional, poorly timed and certianly not done on
> purpose. I will let you know where they end up. I am not even sure
> why it went down just yet.
>
> If you do decide to move along we are sorry to see you go and THANK
> YOU for all the years of support. If you read the above, you now
> understand why the decisions were made and we hope that with a
little
> patience you will stick it out for the ooPic Pro series.
>
> If you did decide to hang in there then THANK YOU to that crowd.
>
> If you have already swam the river all we can do is try to make a
> better product with better support and try to get you to swim back.
>
> Really, if you feel qualified and want to hang the moniker of SI
Tech
> Support on your signature send me an email. It is an unpaid
position
> for now but that will change in the future we hope. bigbug@oobug.
> <mailto:bigbug%40oobug.com> com.
>
> Jessica, It seems you may have inadvertantly left some of the facts
> out of your post and because we have worked together for so long I
> will not correct your mistakes in here. You may however contact me
> for a complete and correct list. Your financial woes in business
and
> with SI/Pentar were before my time.
>
> Ted
> Savage Innovations
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------

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